vor 18 Monaten / 18 Months ago
Based upon the idea from Pat Chapin, i have prepared, copied and pasted comments on the newest rules changes im magic from M10, just to see if Magic really died or the people really stopped playing.
But I think it will be enough to revisit this topic in 6 months.
Here Pat's text (scg-forums):
the rules changes ARE a good thing, and not just for attracting new players or making the game more intuitive to some people.
i know it is not popular to suggest patience and trying the new rules before judging them, but i am of the opinion that wotc r&d is full of really smart people who have thought long and hard about the game that they have dedicated their life to making the best possible game it can be.
there are always going to be countless people who will claim the sky is falling every time there is any change in any aspect of life, magic or otherwise, but i would suggest that it may be wise to slow for a moment and not get caught up on the band wagon that is bash wotc for ruining magic.
i mean, first of all, every rule but one is clearly superior. battlefield and exile are fine names for zones that need names. you are embarrassed to play magic because of names like battlefield? ever wonder where cards go when you discard them or where they come from when you draw them? i mean, really, you are playing a game with dragons and magic and fireballs and vampires, get over it.
what would the transformers or x-men movies had been like if the producers and tried to pretend that there werent giant robots turning into cars or mutants with metal skeletons? i will reserve judgement on the insecurity of one that would be ashamed of such a flavor.
resolving mulligans at the same time is obviously good for tournament play. why would one not applaud wotc for this?
mana pools clearing and mana burn being erased: well, mana pools clearing is obviously more logical, and mana burn was an interesting aspect from a strategic standpoint, but the complexity contributed little compared to what it cost the game from a design standpoint and from a tracking information standpoint. if your problem comes from specific cards being ruined like Power Surge, take comfort in knowing that new cards will be born that never could have before. if your problem is the loss of strategic depth, be aware that the game can only handle so much complexity and mana burn offers little compared to what it costs the game.
think of it like this, what would you prefer to exist, Planeswalkers or Mana Burn?
it would seem that few reasonable arguements can be brought forward for any rules change beyond the new combat system. i admit that my initial reaction towards this combat was one of anxiety. i feared the loss of strategic depth when it came to attacking with a lured trained armadon and my opponent blocks with three hill giants. i have an infest, why cant i kill them?!
however, upon further reflection, i realized that while there is loss of strategic depth in some areas, there is actually an increase in strategic depth in others. for instance, an attacker than can correctly determine what "trick" the defender is up to is at an advantage when ordering blockers. similarly, a blocker than can correctly anticipate the ordering of blockers the attacker will choose is at an advantage, let alone the possibilities increasing for bluffing actually impacting combat regularly.
some lament the loss of giant growths ability to protect gaddock teeg in a triple block (when they position him first) however you must realize that giant growth now has the ability to protect multiple creatures at once. Imagine if a 3/3, a 2/2, a 1/1 and a 1/1 are blocking a 7/7. Giant growth on the 2/2 saves three creatures now if the opponent orders them in this way. on the other hand, if the opponent orders them in the reverse, 1/1, 1/1, 2/2, and 3/3 (correctly anticipating the trick) it only saves one. On the other hand, if the attacker was wrong about the trick, and it is actually a cycled Naya Sojuners, ordering the blockers in this way will lead to the defender getting to keep his best creature instead of his worst.
see, while there is loss of strategic depth in some areas, it is without question that there are rich new areas of strategy to reward players for understanding. combat hardly plans itself.
as far as damage on the stack goes, just remember all of the people who cried out when wotc first suggested putting damage on the stack. you are mad that mogg fanatic doesnt bend the rules anymore? remember, when it was designed, that was not how it was supposed to work any way. the new system is more intuitive, no questiton, but it is not at the expense of game play. the cards can be designed under either system. the changes will take a little getting used to, but the theory behind them is good.
basically what it comes down to is this:
Pros: these rules changes are healthy for the longevity and expansion of the game and improve the rules structure that by its very growth every 3 months is always at risk of growing out of control.
Cons: change is always hard for some people. some will claim that the loss of strategic depth is a major con, and i agree it would be if not for the increase in strategic depth in other areas.
Try the new rules before being so quick to insult the men and women who spend their lives making this great game we love. Do you really think they would make these changes so recklessly? If one can really not find a single announcement or change in the past 365 days that wotc did right, is that a statement about wotc or the one with the lack of perspective.
paulo, you know i love you, but dont be that guy. the sky isnt falling. wotc arent idiots. give the new rules a chance.
to anyone out there that is going wild complaining about the new rules to anyone that will listen, i would challenge you to copy/paste everything you are saying into a word document that reprint it 18 months from now in all of these same places as well as an honest assessment as to the accuracy of the claims.
i will gladly revisit the things i have said here 18 months ago. we shall see what time has to say about things.
congrats on the continued success PV. you are one of the absolute best at this game. good luck this weekend.
_________________
Patrick Chapin
But I think it will be enough to revisit this topic in 6 months.
Here Pat's text (scg-forums):
the rules changes ARE a good thing, and not just for attracting new players or making the game more intuitive to some people.
i know it is not popular to suggest patience and trying the new rules before judging them, but i am of the opinion that wotc r&d is full of really smart people who have thought long and hard about the game that they have dedicated their life to making the best possible game it can be.
there are always going to be countless people who will claim the sky is falling every time there is any change in any aspect of life, magic or otherwise, but i would suggest that it may be wise to slow for a moment and not get caught up on the band wagon that is bash wotc for ruining magic.
i mean, first of all, every rule but one is clearly superior. battlefield and exile are fine names for zones that need names. you are embarrassed to play magic because of names like battlefield? ever wonder where cards go when you discard them or where they come from when you draw them? i mean, really, you are playing a game with dragons and magic and fireballs and vampires, get over it.
what would the transformers or x-men movies had been like if the producers and tried to pretend that there werent giant robots turning into cars or mutants with metal skeletons? i will reserve judgement on the insecurity of one that would be ashamed of such a flavor.
resolving mulligans at the same time is obviously good for tournament play. why would one not applaud wotc for this?
mana pools clearing and mana burn being erased: well, mana pools clearing is obviously more logical, and mana burn was an interesting aspect from a strategic standpoint, but the complexity contributed little compared to what it cost the game from a design standpoint and from a tracking information standpoint. if your problem comes from specific cards being ruined like Power Surge, take comfort in knowing that new cards will be born that never could have before. if your problem is the loss of strategic depth, be aware that the game can only handle so much complexity and mana burn offers little compared to what it costs the game.
think of it like this, what would you prefer to exist, Planeswalkers or Mana Burn?
it would seem that few reasonable arguements can be brought forward for any rules change beyond the new combat system. i admit that my initial reaction towards this combat was one of anxiety. i feared the loss of strategic depth when it came to attacking with a lured trained armadon and my opponent blocks with three hill giants. i have an infest, why cant i kill them?!
however, upon further reflection, i realized that while there is loss of strategic depth in some areas, there is actually an increase in strategic depth in others. for instance, an attacker than can correctly determine what "trick" the defender is up to is at an advantage when ordering blockers. similarly, a blocker than can correctly anticipate the ordering of blockers the attacker will choose is at an advantage, let alone the possibilities increasing for bluffing actually impacting combat regularly.
some lament the loss of giant growths ability to protect gaddock teeg in a triple block (when they position him first) however you must realize that giant growth now has the ability to protect multiple creatures at once. Imagine if a 3/3, a 2/2, a 1/1 and a 1/1 are blocking a 7/7. Giant growth on the 2/2 saves three creatures now if the opponent orders them in this way. on the other hand, if the opponent orders them in the reverse, 1/1, 1/1, 2/2, and 3/3 (correctly anticipating the trick) it only saves one. On the other hand, if the attacker was wrong about the trick, and it is actually a cycled Naya Sojuners, ordering the blockers in this way will lead to the defender getting to keep his best creature instead of his worst.
see, while there is loss of strategic depth in some areas, it is without question that there are rich new areas of strategy to reward players for understanding. combat hardly plans itself.
as far as damage on the stack goes, just remember all of the people who cried out when wotc first suggested putting damage on the stack. you are mad that mogg fanatic doesnt bend the rules anymore? remember, when it was designed, that was not how it was supposed to work any way. the new system is more intuitive, no questiton, but it is not at the expense of game play. the cards can be designed under either system. the changes will take a little getting used to, but the theory behind them is good.
basically what it comes down to is this:
Pros: these rules changes are healthy for the longevity and expansion of the game and improve the rules structure that by its very growth every 3 months is always at risk of growing out of control.
Cons: change is always hard for some people. some will claim that the loss of strategic depth is a major con, and i agree it would be if not for the increase in strategic depth in other areas.
Try the new rules before being so quick to insult the men and women who spend their lives making this great game we love. Do you really think they would make these changes so recklessly? If one can really not find a single announcement or change in the past 365 days that wotc did right, is that a statement about wotc or the one with the lack of perspective.
paulo, you know i love you, but dont be that guy. the sky isnt falling. wotc arent idiots. give the new rules a chance.
to anyone out there that is going wild complaining about the new rules to anyone that will listen, i would challenge you to copy/paste everything you are saying into a word document that reprint it 18 months from now in all of these same places as well as an honest assessment as to the accuracy of the claims.
i will gladly revisit the things i have said here 18 months ago. we shall see what time has to say about things.
congrats on the continued success PV. you are one of the absolute best at this game. good luck this weekend.
_________________
Patrick Chapin
valtl - 14. Dez, 13:58
